• October 20, 2018, 04:27:42 AM

Author Topic: banned for interfering with events  (Read 336 times)

Offline The Second Sight

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banned for interfering with events
« on: August 05, 2018, 08:04:03 PM »
so i'm here to type about the fact that i got banned by notaliasing for interfering an event by using global items. this is not a rule, as seen here:
http://tf2swapshop.com/forum/index.php?topic=322.0

so apparently there was a ctf event or something going on in the server, and easy money and i were using shop commands that pissed everybody off really badly (hhh and zeus), and the admin finally decided to ban me for half an hour, i believe is what it was.

there may be no evidence, but i do have witnesses of this event, these being notaliasing him/herself, easy money, i, and the other players on the server as of ~9:30-9:50 PM EST.

admin discretion is NOWHERE to be found in the rules. this ban is invalid, so i'm reporting this user for it.

| steamname: NotAliasing
|  steam3ID: [U:1:225716406]
| steamID32: STEAM_0:0:112858203
| steamID64: https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198185982134
| customURL: https://steamcommunity.com/id/Kurusu_
|  steamrep: https://steamrep.com/profiles/76561198185982134

edit: i have console logs and screenshots of those logs. if you need them, they will be attached.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2018, 08:52:25 PM by OAEUK »


Offline Psyk0tik

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Re: banned for interfering with events
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2018, 08:17:06 PM »
Moved to the proper board.

By the way, temporarily banning players for disrupting events is part of our staff guidelines which are only visible to staff members.

Offline Psyk0tik

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Re: banned for interfering with events
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2018, 08:37:37 PM »
Relevant logs:

Quote
L 08/05/2018 - 19:47:54: [NotAliasing] sm_smite OAEUK L 08/05/2018 - 19:47:54: [adminsmite.smx] "NotAliasing<1864><[U:1:225716406]><>" smote "OAEUK<1873><[U:1:82589888]><>"

Quote
L 08/05/2018 - 19:49:38: [NotAliasing] sm_csay dont buy !shop items during events please L 08/05/2018 - 19:49:38: [basechat.smx] "NotAliasing<1864><[U:1:225716406]><>" triggered sm_csay (text dont buy !shop items during events please)

Quote
sm_kick easy money L 08/05/2018 - 19:50:38: [basecommands.smx] "NotAliasing<1864><[U:1:225716406]><>" kicked "easy money<1879><[U:1:228116142]><>" (reason "money") L 08/05/2018 - 19:51:00: [NotAliasing] sm_csay easy money, one more time, and its a 30 minute ban. dont interferre with events L 08/05/2018 - 19:51:00: [basechat.smx] "NotAliasing<1864><[U:1:225716406]><>" triggered sm_csay (text easy money, one more time, and its a 30 minute ban. dont interferre with events)

Quote
sm_kick OAEUK L 08/05/2018 - 19:52:39: [basecommands.smx] "NotAliasing<1864><[U:1:225716406]><>" kicked "OAEUK<1873><[U:1:82589888]><>" (reason "") L 08/05/2018 - 19:53:24: [NotAliasing] sm_csay if either of you do that again, you will receive a 30 minute ban for ignoring admins and interupting a server event. L 08/05/2018 - 19:53:24: [basechat.smx] "NotAliasing<1864><[U:1:225716406]><>" triggered sm_csay (text if either of you do that again, you will receive a 30 minute ban for ignoring admins and interupting a server event.)

Quote
L 08/05/2018 - 19:54:43: [sbpp_main.smx] "NotAliasing<1864><[U:1:225716406]><>" banned "OAEUK<1885><[U:1:82589888]><>" (minutes "30") (reason "Ignoring Admins")

Quote
L 08/05/2018 - 19:55:06: [NotAliasing] sm_csay its ignoring admins L 08/05/2018 - 19:55:06: [basechat.smx] "NotAliasing<1864><[U:1:225716406]><>" triggered sm_csay (text its ignoring admins) L 08/05/2018 - 19:55:27: [NotAliasing] sm_csay i wouldnt argue with admins with what the rules are, lol. L 08/05/2018 - 19:55:27: [basechat.smx] "NotAliasing<1864><[U:1:225716406]><>" triggered sm_csay (text i wouldnt argue with admins with what the rules are, lol.)

Quote
L 08/05/2018 - 20:06:10: [NotAliasing] sm_smite easy L 08/05/2018 - 20:06:10: [adminsmite.smx] "NotAliasing<1864><[U:1:225716406]><>" smote "easy money<1884><[U:1:228116142]><>" L 08/05/2018 - 20:06:31: [NotAliasing] sm_csay easy money, please stop. L 08/05/2018 - 20:06:31: [basechat.smx] "NotAliasing<1864><[U:1:225716406]><>" triggered sm_csay (text easy money, please stop.) L 08/05/2018 - 20:06:38: [NotAliasing] sm_kick easy L 08/05/2018 - 20:06:38: [basecommands.smx] "NotAliasing<1864><[U:1:225716406]><>" kicked "easy money<1884><[U:1:228116142]><>" (reason "")

Quote
L 08/05/2018 - 20:07:36: [sbpp_main.smx] "NotAliasing<1864><[U:1:225716406]><>" banned "easy money<1893><[U:1:228116142]><>" (minutes "30") (reason "Ignoring Admins")

Offline The Second Sight

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Re: banned for interfering with events
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2018, 08:53:51 PM »
Moved to the proper board.

By the way, temporarily banning players for disrupting events is part of our staff guidelines which are only visible to staff members.

so why should they only be visible to them? others will need to know, otherwise we will be mistaken for thinking they are being abusive. update your rules.

Offline Psyk0tik

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Re: banned for interfering with events
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2018, 09:26:13 PM »
That's why we have this rule in place:

Quote from: Rules/Guidelines page
Respect staff members and do not harass or deny their requests.

The logs show that you both were warned enough times to warrant punishments.

The Staff Guidelines are only visible to Staff members.

Offline The Second Sight

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Re: banned for interfering with events
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2018, 09:32:47 PM »
That's why we have this rule in place:

Quote from: Rules/Guidelines page
Respect staff members and do not harass or deny their requests.

The logs show that you both were warned enough times to warrant punishments.

The Staff Guidelines are only visible to Staff members.

depends on their request. is staff discretion allowed?

Offline ezmoney

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Re: banned for interfering with events
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2018, 09:43:59 PM »
The last straw that got me banned was hitting NotAliasing with the pan during the spycrab which for one isnt against the rules, but is actually encouraged.
"Be annoying and expect to get annoyed"

The spycrab for a key was also mentioned to not be a server key, but from the admin himself, therefore making that not a server event.
I didnt know banning on personal interest was also in your staff guidelines
« Last Edit: August 05, 2018, 09:47:53 PM by easy money »

Offline Psyk0tik

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Re: banned for interfering with events
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2018, 09:47:45 PM »
Within reasonable limits, yes. We put faith in our administrators that they'll be responsible with their admin privileges so we don't hold a dagger above their necks at all times like some communities do.

I don't think asking you to not disrupt the event was an inappropriate/outlandish request. You and your friend didn't listen so NotAliasing took action against both of you.

Offline ezmoney

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Re: banned for interfering with events
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2018, 09:49:46 PM »
I think requesting us to not use server provided features like !shop is an outlandish request. !shop gets flak all the time for being annoying, unfair, and disruptive, it just so happens this time an admin got annoyed.

Offline Shh

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Re: banned for interfering with events
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2018, 11:01:35 AM »
Dude, step back for a minute, and look at it from this way - you were asked by an administrator to stop doing a certain action, which is something fully within their capabilities to ask for. You didn't stop, and the administrator asked multiple times. The administrator took action, because you declined to. There's not much more than that.
This is my grain of salt.
This grain of salt is happy.

Offline The Second Sight

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Re: banned for interfering with events
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2018, 07:17:06 PM »
Dude, step back for a minute, and look at it from this way - you were asked by an administrator to stop doing a certain action, which is something fully within their capabilities to ask for. You didn't stop, and the administrator asked multiple times. The administrator took action, because you declined to. There's not much more than that.

perhaps you would understand if you can acknowledge the fact that staff can do bad things as well, which is why we have a board to post threads about reporting these miscreants. if i were to be told not to dominate the admin, obviously i wouldn’t listen, unless staff discretion is completely fine. i still haven’t been told whether being discretionary was allowed or not in their favor. i thought the whole idea behind not being allowed to interfere during events was bullshit, because i saw it nowhere in the rules/guidelines, so i took action, completely ignoring the admin. i thought notaliasing was making the wrong move, which is why i came here to report this user.

edit: just noticed (dumb me). is staff descretion really that dependent on the situation?
« Last Edit: August 06, 2018, 07:20:26 PM by OAEUK »

Offline Psyk0tik

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Re: banned for interfering with events
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2018, 05:33:08 PM »
We allow staff discretion since we train and trust our admins to behave and handle situations properly and maturely. We host events to provide entertainment to a wide range of players. This is why we give admins the right to punish anyone who continues to disrupt events after multiple warnings. I advise that you listen next time an administrator requests you to follow reasonable orders.

Offline Hades

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Re: banned for interfering with events
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2018, 09:20:44 PM »
Hello,

My name is Hades. I am a Head Administrator for the community.  Perhaps I can help to explain what happened and why our administrator did what he did. Let's begin by taking a closer look at both sides.


...
so apparently there was a ctf event or something going on in the server, and easy money and i were using shop commands that pissed everybody off really badly (hhh and zeus), and the admin finally decided to ban me for half an hour, i believe is what it was.
...
admin discretion is NOWHERE to be found in the rules. this ban is invalid, so i'm reporting this user for it.

The event that was going on is as follows:
Server: 35
Time: 7:15PM CDT - ???)
...
Events: Mass spycrab, DTD (Destroy the dispenser), possibly more.

You are free to use the shop and buy items from it. However when an Administrator hosts an event, temporary rules can be put into place to create the structure and set the limitations for the event. If you do not participate in the event and continue to play on the server, you are expected to be courteous to those that are participating. The actions you stated highlighted in Orange show that both of you were not respecting the rules for the event. You also demonstrated, as shown through the logs, that you both received multiple warnings for event disruption.  Communication Dot#9: "Respect staff members and do not harass or deny their requests.". You were in clear violation of this rule and of the temporary rules established when the event was being hosted. Our Staff Guidelines state that those ignoring warnings given by an administrator for event disruption can be banned for no more than 30 minutes at a time. This administrator gave both of you enough prior warnings that you could have avoided this punishment and it did not/does not have to be in the rules for you to comply with what had been asked of you.



The last straw that got me banned was hitting NotAliasing with the pan during the spycrab which for one isnt against the rules, but is actually encouraged.
"Be annoying and expect to get annoyed"




Are you attempting to imply that our staff member hosting an event was annoying to you?  This statement of "Be annoying and expect to get annoyed" is not us encouraging you to do so, it is a warning. It is formatted similarly to: " Treat others how you wish to be treated", I fail to see how both are an encouragement to treat others with the level disrespect you both have.




The spycrab for a key was also mentioned to not be a server key, but from the admin himself, therefore making that not a server event.
...



A server event is not defined as an event hosted by the Artificial Intelligence code that makes up the server. Server events are defined as an event that effects players currently on the server when hosted by an administrator. We have no plugin installed to host events and all of ours are hosted by our own staff members. I must point out that trying to get off on a technicality will not work.


If you have further questions please feel free to make a response, if none is given after 2 days this post will be locked.

Thank you,

Hades





« Last Edit: August 08, 2018, 09:57:30 PM by Hades »

Offline Hades

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Re: banned for interfering with events
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2018, 01:09:10 PM »
No response given after 4 days.


Topic locked.

Hades