Admin App Limit

[Peter Capaldi's Peter Capaldi]

I have requested the head admins to consider an admin app limit of 100+ posts. In order to give additional integrity of and to the system, the limit would require new members to be active the forums. After asking Death, he subsequently denied the suggestion. Let me know your thoughts on this idea. I'll leave a poll and the conversations I've had with Death and BloodRain. BloodRain has suggested time upon registry. I like that idea better.

Conversation with Death regarding the admin app limit idea:

Never tell your password to anyone.
Peter Capaldi's Sunglasses: Yo. Set a restriction on administration applications for those within the "New Members" on the forums. Set a limit to one hundred posts. Once a member has reached one hundred posts, allow them to make an administrator application. This could improve the administrator applicaition system yet compromise the forums to spam. We'll see if it works. If it doesn't work within a two months and if it pushes players away, remove restriction.
Peter Capaldi's Sunglasses: *this could improve the adminstrator application system's integrity [..]
Peter Capaldi's Sunglasses: So, simple version:
Peter Capaldi's Sunglasses: Set a restriction on new members for admin apps to 100 posts.
Peter Capaldi's Sunglasses: If it fails or brings too much spam, then remove it.
Peter Capaldi's Sunglasses: The restriction could bring integrity to the admin app system.
Death™: lets just face the facts
Death™: tf2 is dying
Death™: we are losing more and more players everyday
Death™: and you want to add more restrictions
Peter Capaldi's Sunglasses: Ha. At least SwapShop will have an integral admin application system. Besides, we should keep trying and keep going. Isn't that what SwapShop prides itself on? Going on?
Peter Capaldi's Sunglasses: *would
Death™: forcing users to use the forum isnt the answer
Peter Capaldi's Sunglasses: At least consider it.
Death™: we have more users who interact with us on our steam group
Death™: todays generations dont understand what a forum is
Death™: its old
Peter Capaldi's Sunglasses: Then make it new.
Death™: im not spending the money on it
Peter Capaldi's Sunglasses: At least consider it.
Death™: from day 1 iv hated the forums
Peter Capaldi's Sunglasses: Didn't you make 'em?
Death™: it was pixels baby
Peter Capaldi's Sunglasses: So its hard feelings towards him?
Peter Capaldi's Sunglasses: *it's
Death™: no
Death™: forums was never my thing
Death™: I really dont see their use
Death™: everyone keeps trying to push them
Death™: everyone keeps trying to make it a requirement
Death™: this is a game
Death™: why are we pushing none game on people
Death™: its a means for users to contact us about issues
Death™: thats pretty much it
Peter Capaldi's Sunglasses: But it could be another tool in the kit, more than that.
Peter Capaldi's Sunglasses: To be honest. The Steam group stuff for foruming is sort of lame. You can make or hire someone to make something much cooler out of a custom domain and forum.
Death™: yea but you cant get players to it
Death™: steam group is intergrated
Death™: you can launch events
Death™: and do promotions
Death™: you get eyes on your content
Death™: people join the group everyday
Death™: nobody joins the forums unless there is problems
Death™: the natural flow is to the group
Peter Capaldi's Sunglasses: Ya, but the forums could also be used for more formal and thought out discussion. We can remove off-topic sections if we want.
Death™: im not going to sit here and argue with you
Death™: I flat out dont care
Peter Capaldi's Sunglasses: I'll take it up with head administration. Thank you for your time and consideration.

Last message received: Wednesday, November 30, 2016 at 11:13 PM

Current conversation with BloodRain thus far:

Never tell your password to anyone.
Peter Capaldi's Sunglasses: Yo. Are you on Discord?
BloodRain: I am
Peter Capaldi's Sunglasses: Sweet. But we'll just talk here.
Peter Capaldi's Sunglasses: Create a restriction on new members to create an admin app to 100 posts. Once the limit is reached, new members should be able to create admin apps.
Peter Capaldi's Sunglasses: This would help the integrity of the admin app system.
Peter Capaldi's Sunglasses: This could bring spammers.
Peter Capaldi's Sunglasses: I don't think Death will take action.
BloodRain is now Online.
Peter Capaldi's Sunglasses: Yo.
Peter Capaldi's Sunglasses: Are you still online?
BloodRain: Yes
BloodRain: I went afk for a sec
Peter Capaldi's Sunglasses: Ya, read my suggestion.
BloodRain: Only allow players with a 100+ postcount on the forums to apply?
Peter Capaldi's Sunglasses: Yes.
BloodRain: I see some issues with that.
BloodRain: 1. A lot of players only go on the forums to apply
BloodRain: 2. Players may spam the forums to quickly reach 100 posts
BloodRain: Maybe instead of post count
BloodRain: We can go off of account registration
Peter Capaldi's Sunglasses: Time spent?
Peter Capaldi's Sunglasses: Oh!
BloodRain: yea
Peter Capaldi's Sunglasses: Nice.
BloodRain: That way people are more inclined to learn a bit about the community as they wait for legibility.
Peter Capaldi's Sunglasses: That's exactly the point. I like that idea.
Peter Capaldi's Sunglasses: Time of registration or time online?
BloodRain: From the time they register to the sufficient minimum.
BloodRain: Which I would say maybe
BloodRain: 2 weeks seems fair
Peter Capaldi's Sunglasses: Ya. If it doesn't reach the goal maybe we could math it. What are your thoughts on that?
BloodRain: Which goal?
Peter Capaldi's Sunglasses: Making sure memebers take time to get to know people before they apply.
BloodRain: That is what they decide to do or not.
Peter Capaldi's Sunglasses: Right...
BloodRain: Knowledge is power.
Peter Capaldi's Sunglasses:
Peter Capaldi's Sunglasses: Forward this conversation to Strum. I'm sending him a condensed version on the forums.
BloodRain: Alright.
Peter Capaldi's Sunglasses: Same with Sam.
Peter Capaldi's Sunglasses: *Ham
BloodRain: I'll do it for Ham as well
BloodRain: I have a better idea
BloodRain: I'll post it on the forums
Peter Capaldi's Sunglasses: Ok.
BloodRain: The character limit is too big
BloodRain: So that's why
Peter Capaldi's Sunglasses: I'm still sending versions to the other head admins.
Peter Capaldi's Sunglasses: Lol. "Too big."
Peter Capaldi's Sunglasses:
Peter Capaldi's Sunglasses: I missed my opportunity with Death. I didn't make a good case with him. I'll try bringing the idea to him later.
Peter Capaldi's Sunglasses: You gonna make the forum post? I think you should make it.
Peter Capaldi's Sunglasses: Talk with Hades about the idea. I think he was the first to hear it.
BloodRain: I will.
Peter Capaldi's Sunglasses: Ok.
Peter Capaldi's Sunglasses: Are you chating with someone else?
BloodRain: Yes
Peter Capaldi's Sunglasses: Are you going to post tonight?
Peter Capaldi's Sunglasses: I'll have to save the convos in a .txt if you're not going to post tonight. I really need to sleep for my studies.
Peter Capaldi's Sunglasses: Okie dokie... Welp. I'm gonna go to bed.

Last message received: Wednesday, November 30, 2016 at 11:45 PM

[Psy]

Death himself does not care if staff visit the forums. The current staff hardly visit the forums at all anyway.

I have pushed for more forum activity a few times before and all of them failed. I would find it extremely unfair if new staff are suddenly required to be more active on the forums. After all, current staff are expempted from new application guidelines.

This would also provoke unnecessary spam from applicants, of which nobody wants to deal with.

Overall, I vote No.

[theSipow]

I think the regulations are fine the way they are and should stay the same. People play more on the servers and could care less about the forums or even the steam group anyways. Besides, people can easily get around 100 posts by just constantly spamming out different topics or doing one-word replies on other people's posts. Their time on the servers make way more sense then forum posts. If they have to be active here they may as well have to be active on the steam group too. Let's face it, the forums aren't going to become very popular, players play, not type. Though I still believe admins should be active on the forums in order to vote for new admins and keep in line of rules and such, a community member shouldn't be forced to do that. 2 weeks after registration will just be even more annoying to deal with, because when players decide, "I think I finally want to be an admin," they probably haven't even joined the forums yet. Two weeks and 100 posts is an awful long time to wait to be rejected...
Just leave it be.

[Psy]

One thing I've come to realize is that..

The forum is only appealing (not fun, but appealing) when you're either a popular member, an administrator, or have some interesting shit to say about an applicant.

Everything else is "meh"..

[Sins |Anti-Being|]

Death is right. Forums are dying. I have noticed a steep decline is users on the forums since the day I got here. Having a 100+ post count is tedious and no one will do it.

And quite frankly, there is nothing we can do about it. Changing the forums or moving the forums to our Steam group won't help the situation. That's just the fact of it all. I'm not saying kill the forums entirely, but it shouldn't be a requirement at all, because even if all the Admins were active on the forums regularly, what would the purpose be? To reply to an Admin app or two, maybe deal with a ban repeal every month that's usually bonkers anyways, or reply in a silly  "Three Word Story"? No Admins care enough for the forums, not even Death himself. What does that tell ya? And don't even get me started on that Admin demotion debacle that happened a little while ago...

Although we have been adapting to what the users want and can do, it still won't make the forums any much better. And then slap on a 100+ post minimum to apply for Admin? That's nuts.

It goes like this: Servers > Steam Group > Forums

So although I'm getting a bit off topic, the registration should stay the same.

[Psy]

Death is right. Forums are dying. I have noticed a steep decline is users on the forums since the day I got here. Having a 100+ post count is tedious and no one will do it.

And quite frankly, there is nothing we can do about it. Changing the forums or moving the forums to our Steam group won't help the situation. That's just the fact of it all. I'm not saying kill the forums entirely, but it shouldn't be a requirement at all, because even if all the Admins were active on the forums regularly, what would the purpose be? To reply to an Admin app or two, maybe deal with a ban repeal every month that's usually bonkers anyways, or reply in a silly  "Three Word Story"? No Admins care enough for the forums, not even Death himself. What does that tell ya? And don't even get me started on that Admin demotion debacle that happened a little while ago...

Although we have been adapting to what the users want and can do, it still won't make the forums any much better. And then slap on a 100+ post minimum to apply for Admin? That's nuts.

It goes like this: Servers > Steam Group > Forums

So although I'm getting a bit off topic, the registration should stay the same.

^^^^^

This guy gets it.

[Peter Capaldi's Peter Capaldi]

Welp. If this flat out gets denied, then it's just the first hurrah for "Be a Member." This was what I practically had in mind. Listening to what you guys have to say, I don't see a huge deal or problem with setting this "annoying" standard and having a little discipline. But this would, in reality, just hurt SwapShop more, am I right? "Oh, you wanna be an admin? Ok, we'll let you apply right away on our 'forums' and we'll eventually accept you after you and your application become 'acceptable.'" No one's perfect, but the philosophy is extraordinary silly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axbUCR1nKRA

[Strum]

Welp. If this flat out gets denied, then it's just the first hurrah for "Be a Member." This was what I practically had in mind. Listening to what you guys have to say, I don't see a huge deal or problem with setting this "annoying" standard and having a little discipline. But this would, in reality, just hurt SwapShop more, am I right? "Oh, you wanna be an admin? Ok, we'll let you apply right away on our 'forums' and we'll eventually accept you after you and your application become 'acceptable.'" No one's perfect, but the philosophy is extraordinary silly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axbUCR1nKRA

I'm voting no solely to the fact that current requirements are what I view as a simplistic way of applications being implemented for the community. The idea that you have doesn't really make sense as  it doesn't guarantee people will be on forums I mean look at us now we barely have any one on already.

[mental]

I agree with Death .. forums are dying, and if he were to put the money and effort into the forums ... it would be useless. I mean no one even uses the forums unless its an admin app or complaining about staff and players. Back then before I peace the scene for a bit everyone was interactive with each other ... now its just a ghost town.

Im sorry man ... its a no.

[Peter Capaldi's Peter Capaldi]

Welp. If this flat out gets denied, then it's just the first hurrah for "Be a Member." This was what I practically had in mind. Listening to what you guys have to say, I don't see a huge deal or problem with setting this "annoying" standard and having a little discipline. But this would, in reality, just hurt SwapShop more, am I right? "Oh, you wanna be an admin? Ok, we'll let you apply right away on our 'forums' and we'll eventually accept you after you and your application become 'acceptable.'" No one's perfect, but the philosophy is extraordinary silly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axbUCR1nKRA

I'm voting no solely to the fact that current requirements are what I view as a simplistic way of applications being implemented for the community. The idea that you have doesn't really make sense as  it doesn't guarantee people will be on forums I mean look at us now we barely have any one on already.

It won't guarantee that people will be on the forums. It will, however, suggest those who desire to make an admin application to consider activity on the forums. The logic in regards to bringing in new people does not, indeed, make sense because of your interpretation of its goal. Besides, if i was anyone else who offered the suggestion, then the idea would probably be considered.

I agree with Death .. forums are dying, and if he were to put the money and effort into the forums ... it would be useless. I mean no one even uses the forums unless its an admin app or complaining about staff and players. Back then before I peace the scene for a bit everyone was interactive with each other ... now its just a ghost town.

Im sorry man ... its a no.

Are the forums dying because the people aren't going or are the forums dying because we don't have the money nor the owner to care for them? Well, people aren't going to the forums and we don't have the money nor an owner who wants to do anything with the forums. So really, it's both. The leader is setting the mood for his troops. Yet, the leader's decision is that of either low confidence, despair or retreat; but that isn't the problem. If you want these forums and if you like these forums, then it is a problem. If we don't want a true forum, then we should consider the removal or availability of discussion, feedback, off-topic, staff introductions, player introductions, and comedy central boards.

[K a z u m a ™]

If I must be honest, I really don't see the point of having forms anymore. As many people have stated, no one uses them unless they want something. Besides... The new rule placed about the forums is a bit silly mostly because, not including applications and review boards, how else can we possible use the forums if their dead? I can mean we agreed to it, yes, but the whole point of us applying for our administration position was to be server admins. Not forum admins. It's all just unfair with how no one, staff and regular members alike, use the forums.

[Sins |Anti-Being|]

Are the forums dying because the people aren't going or are the forums dying because we don't have the money nor the owner to care for them?

The players don't go on the forums as much as they did say 2 years ago or so. That and Death doesn't care about the forums.

We have the money, the forums don't cost that much, it is just the player count that comes on the forums, not including Admins or past Admins. To me, the forums are for Admin apps basically, so if that's the case, maybe slim the forums down to Ban Appeals, Admin Apps, and other necessities rather than another social lounge? 

[mental]

Are the forums dying because the people aren't going or are the forums dying because we don't have the money nor the owner to care for them?
[/quote
so if that's the case, maybe slim the forums down to Ban Appeals, Admin Apps, and other necessities rather than another social lounge?

100% Agree, slim the forums down to just admins apps, ban appeals and player/admin reports.

[Peter Capaldi's Peter Capaldi]

Making a new topic on slimming down the forums...

[Ἀΐδης]

Most players/members do not go on the forums for several reasons. Should these reasons be addressed then perhaps it may increase traffic to the forums.

1. There is currently no incentive for players to go onto the forums other than to apply for administration, report a player/Staff member(now done through report), and donation issues.
2. The only advertising the forums get is in the top left corner of a players screen depending on their texture and its layering style.
3. The forums have no impact on the servers.
   - EX. Sourcebans is used by the staff more actively than that of the forums. This is mostly due do to SourceBans having a direct effect on the servers in the form of a ban, mute,gag, etc....


One such idea is to grant credits per post made(Cost Money)(Can lead to abuse)
May not be the best idea, but it could be a start.

It does no good to simply look at something and say it is a lost cause or it is broke. Seek to improve it. If there is something wrong, think,discover, and discuss new ideas. Not just giving up.



Hades